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Welcome to episode 166 of Lucretius Today. This is a podcast dedicated to the poet Lucretius, who wrote "On The Nature of Things," the only complete presentation of Epicurean philosophy left to us from the ancient world. Each week we walk you through the Epicurean texts, and we discuss how Epicurean philosophy can apply to you today. If you too find the Epicurean worldview attractive, we invite you to join us in the study of Epicurus at EpicureanFriends.com, where you will find a discussion thre…

Our Special Interview With Dr. David Glidden Is Now Available! Along with our interview of Dr. Emily Austin this interview is going to be one of our most important episodes ever, as Dr. Glidden helps us work through the topic of "Epicurean Prolepsis." Please listen and comment below! spreaker.com/episode/53283355

Time to follow up on some of Dr. Glidden's references. If anyone can remember or knows of the Disneyland / "Wonderful World of Disney" cartoon or movie scene he referred to in the podcast, please post. I am aware of an older cartoon with a similar theme of small humans inside our head giving the orders (representing conceptual reason) but not the example of a man on a telephone processing inputs. This is a clip from Disney's "Reason and Emotion" which is applicable in itself, but if anyone can t…

Mark Twain's "What Is Man?" was mentioned several times: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/70/70-h/70-h.htm

A mostly-audio version of this interview is being posted on Youtube here: youtu.be/xz201PEnNQc

One of the key things that Dr. Glidden states several times is that he considers Prolepsis to be "non-cognitive." We probably should not take for granted what that term (non-cognitive)means, and when we discussed it in a recent zoom session it became clear that this needs explanation. So if we consider Prolepsis to be non-cognitive, what does that mean and what is the implication? Does it mean "without interpretation" in the same way the other legs of the canon provide data without opinion? Once…

Here I think is a useful analogy: Many people come to Epicurus because they have read in a scientific article that Epicurus was the precursor of modern quantum theory with atomic particles "swerving." In fact "The Swerve" is the title of one of the most popular books on Epicurus in recent years. But I would submit that if Epicurus were here today and we told him that he was primarily known for having predicted atomic swerve, he would be very displeased and probably rebuke us as not understanding…

(Quote from Godfrey) On this point I am still thinking further, because I have a strong tendency to think that "true" and "false" are descriptions that apply only to evaluations or interpretations, rather than to the raw functioning of a faculty providing input to the process. We might also be talking here about a matter which explains why there was a divergence from later Epicureans going from 3 to 4 categories of canonic elements. I doubt that Epicurus considered any aspect of "grasping" somet…

Don what do you consider the word "cognition" to mean? "The book argues that the structure and functioning of the human brain is actually quite simple, a basic unit of cognition repeated millions of times." I think we probably ought to be clear on this word since we are using it so often. Is it an exact synonym of "thinking" or of "consciousness" or what ? The definitions I am reading are somewhat circular and I suspect we will continue to go round in sort of circles unless we make this point mo…

Onenski thanks for the comment and I full agree that Nature is nonpurposive. I tend to use the "gave" in the sense of Epicurus's statement of being thankful to Nature in a more poetic than literal sense. The quote I refer to is U469 Johannes Stobaeus, Anthology, XVII.23: “Thanks be to blessed Nature because she has made what is necessary easy to supply, and what is not easy unnecessary.” And I tend to agree with DeWitt's interpretation here:

(Quote from Don) (Quote from Don) I agree with both of those, and I think that it is possible to use the same perspective that prolepsis is also "true to its cause." The eyes are not "perfect' in the sense of always being in total focus and always true to colors, (astigmatism). We take what the eyes report as we get it not because what the eyes report are perfect renderings, but because we have no other tool for vision. I think the same can be said for non-cognitive prolepsis. The patterns being…

(Quote from Martin) (Quote from Martin) I agree with that and think it is helpful to think of all legs of the canon as "non-verbal," and then to consider whether some (or all?) meanings of "true" and "false" only apply to the verbal level.

Yes I agree and in order to do that we have to parse the multiple meanings of "true." As Pontius Pilate asked, "what is truth?"

Those clips are from the book. DeWitt's article on the subject - with very pithy summary paragraph - is here: epicureanfriends.com/wcf/fileb…-all-sensations-are-true/

I think all this is important in how we understand the Democritus quote: (Quote from Democritus) "Convention" implies "agreement" to most of us, and yes that is true in regard to what word we use for "sweet" - what language we speak. But it is not by agreement with other people that sugar tastes sweet to us - we describe it that way in words, but "in truth" it is nature telling us individually and directly that sugar tastes a desirable way and gives pleasure. That feeling is just as true and rea…

(Quote from waterholic) I think that's a key insight for everyone including especially me. No matter how much we've read, it's the constant effort to organize it in our minds and then look for new ways to express it to others that is really motivational and keeps you moving forward.

Christos Tsigarides sends this at Facebook: David Glidden must see this On the left of the picture is an old shrine in my village overlooking my city of VOLOS and PELION the place of CENTAURS I found this very important on 52,3 minutes of his lecture This is one of the two shrines on the two entrances to the village

(Quote from Joshua) I fully agree - thank you for such high quality posting! It's going to take me time to even begin to grasp the implications of all the data contained there. And further, I suspect you take the implications of these ideas in interesting ways that would also be productive to pursue.