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My older attempt at a formal equivalence translation: "The limit of the magnitude of pleasure (is) the whole of the removal of that which causes pain. Where that which gives pleasure exists, during the time it is present, there is neither pain nor that which causes pain in body or mind nor either of these together."

(Quote from Nate) My understanding is that it was quite common to omit the copula in ancient Greek. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…inguistics%29?wprov=sfla1

(Quote from Godfrey) Ὅρος limit, rule, standard. A boundary or marker stone Masc. 2nd declension. μεγέθος of degree, greatness, magnitude. Pleasure ΗΔΟΝΩΝ comes first in the text.

μέγεθος • (mégethos) n (genitive μεγέθους or μεγέθεος); third declension greatness, size(always in Homer) height(mathematics) magnitude(sound) loudnesspower(character) magnanimity https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/…99.04.0057:entry=me/geqos The "limit" is that word that Epicurus uses to denote limits elsewhere and is the same word as that "boundary stone" that we've encountered before. So it could be even something like "the limit of the amount of pleasure"

And a mountain could be a metaphorical boundary marker, too.

(Quote from Nate) (Quote from Nate) And this is *exactly* why I advocate for not reading the Principal Doctrines as discrete "sayings." They have to be read as a coherent text, or at least in sections. These metaphors and such that Nate is finding or pointing out are/were completely lost if you read 1, 2, then 3 then 4. We have to read them as a text just like the letters.

Consider the difference the below makes in contrast to how these are normally read (note: this is just quick and dirty using Hicks' translation from Perseus!): The magnitude of pleasure reaches its limit in the removal of all pain. When pleasure is present, so long as it is uninterrupted, there is no pain either of body or of mind or of both together. Continuous pain does not last long in the flesh ; on the contrary, pain, if extreme, is present a very short time, and even that degree of pain wh…

(Quote from Nate) Trivia: That peak that Nate referred to is άκρον akron which is also the name of a city in Ohio named because it was the highest point in the surrounding landscape. "The city was founded by Simon Perkins and Paul Williams in 1825 along the Little Cuyahoga River at the summit of the developing Ohio and Erie Canal. The name is derived from the Ancient Greek word ἄκρον : ákron signifying a summit or high point." (Wikipedia)