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(Quote from Cassius) There's a lot more to get here, but I want to clip this just as an easy answer: no. Variety is a preference, like anything else. Some people have an absolute need for consistency and do not desire variety at all. Variation is not generally preferable, it comes down to the individual. And the individual may desire consistency in some things and variety in others as well. Neither is a universal good. Just one other thing right now, which I don't see as much happen on this foru…

(Quote from Don) (Quote from DavidN) As a long time sufferer of ennui, I can assure you that variety doesn't solve it! (in other words - agreeing with Don's comment that boredom comes from dissatisfaction) I do agree with Cassius's assertion that boredom is a general problem for humans, just not the conclusion that therefore variation is preferable/necessary. My best friend would eat nothing but chicken fingers and fries for the rest of her life (with a protein shake to round out her nutrition) …

(Quote from Cassius) So... I somewhat doubt that Epicurus meant this exactly as it reads to me - I'm still in the process of reading DeWitt and consolidating a lot of different aspects of the philosophy. And full disclosure, I really don't know what "if its limits are measured out through reasoning" means - I can see it having about a half dozen different and highly varied meanings. But yes it did have me thinking about the pink circles too. The pink circles are just another version of the vesse…

The "infinite pleasure is boring" stories (which can sometimes lead to the "pleasure only feels good because pain exists" angle) tend to miss that - yes, while the greatest pleasure sometimes comes from a bit of exertion, that we humans create our own effort. Consider the new retiree who spends a month bored out of their mind and then takes up woodworking. Or the stay at home parent who is also a writer. I think this is a part of a societal narrative where we desperately don't want the masses to…

In other words, I think that for an Epicurean, the greatest pleasure can be found in either limited OR infinite time. Playing around with substitutions in PD19 makes for really useful analogies, but I think putting in "quantity" of anything fundamentally breaks it, because it seems clear that the original is referring to quality. I mean, otherwise you might as well just sub in "quantity of hours" which would be by definition impossible Quantity is the only thing we have more of when time is unli…

During our 20th meetup, I loved Martin’s temperature analogy, and thinking of pleasure as an intensive property so much! Temperature is such a familiar concept that I think it should work well for explaining some of these concepts generally "Infinite time contains an equal amount of temperature as limited time." I’m still curious about the second part though: “if one measures, by reason, the limits of pleasure.” What does it mean to use reason to measure the limits of pleasure? (Or is that wordi…

(Quote from Don) There’s so much good in here, but I want to just specifically pull out this one quote “Pain is simply negative feeling without further judgement.“ I think that’s great, and the kind of practical thing that I could actually take and put into action in my life immediately. It’s reminiscent of the quote “pain is unavoidable, suffering is optional” which I have always really liked. The epicurean goal is to eliminate all pain but… sometimes things happen, and also I’m super clumsy so…

This conversation is also bringing to mind another common saying that I was going to post on the forum anyway, because I see some problems with it. “Nothing in life worth having comes easy” My thought is that Epicurus tells us literally the opposite. There are sometimes we will chose pain to find a greater pleasure (or avoid a greater pain) but in general the things we need come easy. I suspect this kind of saying representing the Protestant work ethic is actually problematic because it makes it…

(Quote from Cassius) Although anyone may of course use the words they want, I have to side with Don when it comes to the word striving. It has a relatively positive connotation these days (in a world where it is believed that anything worth having is difficult to obtain), but it is etymologically related to strife and I just FEEL that element of discord and contention in the word. It feels unnatural as though anything that would require me to strive would be something that is at odds with my nat…