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I might be comfortable with "theoretical limit" in place if "abstract ideal.". Of those two words "ideal" seems to me to be ok - it is the "abstract" that tends to imply that the thing being discussed is set apart from reality and impossible by definition to obtain. What makes absence of pain so difficult is more a practical difficulty of obtaining and maintaining that status. But some of us surely come closer than others, and the possibility that under some conditions all obstacles might be ove…

(Quote from Don) (Quote from Don) I think that Epicurus would qualify both of those statements by adding the words ...HERE IN THIS WORLD to the end of them. That seems to me to be the reasoning involved in placing them in the "intermundia" where either (1) the environment is by nature fully supportive and not harmful to them or (2) the gods by some technology or system are able to control their environment with the same result. Maybe that might appear to some of us as a rationalization merging i…