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(Quote from Godfrey) It is important to remember that there are no numbers in Diogenes Laertius' section containing the Principal Doctrines. That numbering is only convention. (Quote from Godfrey) Just be careful using those last two words. There's some round these parts with a strong reaction to the phrase "abstract ideal." But I think I know where you're coming from. Food for thought! Thanks!

(Quote from Cassius) Exactly. That's one of my arguments for the idealist model of the gods. They don't/can't exist as physical entities but do exist as concepts of a perfect life, totally free from pain, totally imbued with unshakable pleasure. That can't exist in the physical world. There will *always* be blows in the real world if only by chance and not choice.

Not sure who's seen this, but here is Long and Sedley's notes on the gods in their The Hellenistic Philosophers.

At some point, I'll try and go through and give the citations for the E7, 15F, etc. Those are primarily ancient text references that I can simply provide the citations for. I don't feel I can copy and share that entire section but I felt sharing the 5 pages was well within copyright bounds. That being said, I find Long and Sedley's interpretation to be sophisticated, intellectually satisfying, well within Epicurus's overall philosophy, and practical.