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This is a stub to be rewritten into a long article. For the time being: I am convinced that if a young person and/or someone who knows very little about Epicurus first reads DeWitt's "Epicurus and His Philosophy, then followed by Lucretius, Diogenes Laertius, DIogenes of Oinoanda, and the Epicurean sections of Cicero (Torquatus, Velleius), without reading any Wikipedia articles, books written after 1960, or Youtube videos, they would never become a "NeoEpicurean" in the first place. They would b…

You haven't derailed the thread yet as you are the first post Your goal seems excellent to me and that would surely be helpful if it is doable. I do much the same in citing Thomas Jefferson and Frances Wright, who specifically cited and endorsed Epicurus. As I just added in point 8 in my list above, it seems to me that it is a telltale sign as to whether the writer specifically embraces the word "pleasure" and also specifically mentions Epicurus himself as uniquely the leader on this issue. Abse…

Melkor the "ultimate" differences are probably much more in the "ethics" side of things than in the physics, so long as the physics interpretations remain vigorously non-supernatural. It might be easiest to address your concerns if you have specific areas in mind (just as you mentioned the physics) but I think it is fair to say that we've tried to capture the most important issues in this article here: Not Neo-Epicurean, But Epicurean In Elayne's article here there is more detail on the pleasure…

Excellent summary Charles!

Here's my answer: By no means did the classical Epicureans take the position that we should "never" be involved in politics. Look at the example of Cassius Longinus, and there are others as well. The caution I always make is that people are individuals and have different programming for pleasure and pain, and by no means do everyone take pleasure and pain in the same things. Given that difference, I do not think it is possible to take a *Philosophic* position that one view of pleasure or pain is…

I agree with Charles, and I think he is pointing to the probability in the future, as I did, that individual Epicurean "Gardens" (local groups) would probably consist of people whose interests are aligned due to their background or location or whatever, and given that consensus it would be natural for them to find no issue with promoting particular ideas or actions that would be "off limits" to a worldwide internet group such as this one. I can easily see that a Polish Epicurean garden or Russia…

(Quote from melkor) Melkor another illustration that I like to use to focus on the difference between the Epicurean perspective and the Stoic/Platonic or even Aristotelian perspective is this quote from Cicero, which I think represents the OPPOSITE of the Epicurean viewpoint. This is from the Loeb Edition of Cicero's Republic, and the point I am focusing on is the paragraph that begins with "True law is right reason...." Personally I used to think this was one of the greatest things I had ever r…

(Quote from melkor) I think that an Epicurean would find it very hard to take any position that was ultimately religious-based, but the ones you have listed are more perspectives on how to organize an economy, and I would say that it *would* be possible to an Epicurean to think that the interest of himself and his friends might under some circumstances be best served by adopting any of those systems depending on circumstances, and changing those systems as circumstances changed. My quote that co…

And I think he would tell you too to look for friends in real life who share your perspective on pleasure and how to pursue it, because having friends in real life is essential to living the best life that is possible to you. And I also think he would tell you to be sure to put enough time also into studying and spreading the philosophical perspective that you think is correct. That's VS41. We must laugh and philosophize at the same time, and do our household duties, and employ our other faculti…

Starting first with Joshua's list, I agree that is a very good list of core issues. The one that I think needs to be nearer the top is a combination of the reference to the Canon of epistemology, and item 3 as to the role of pleasure, which when added together are a statement of the supremacy of the importance of "feeling" over "logic" and the subservient role of "logic" or "abstract reason" or whatever you want to call systems of reasoning which do not require immediate and close confirmation t…

I think I really agree with most everything I am reading in Nate's post, and the angle in which I would elaborate on it is the issue of who it is that "we" would constitute in terms of the purpose of Epicureanfriends.com and what "we" are doing in our work here. The issue of labels is pretty complex so I want to focus on how to apply Nate's points to "us." I consider "us" to be people who are really working to reconnect and extend the work of the original Epicurean school. For whatever reason, e…

melkor - Thank you again for your question. We started the thread back in January but only when you asked your question today did we really get off the ground, and this discussion we're having now is what I always hoped we would have from it. Also to add in this point, there is a lot of parallel in what we are discussing now to the issues raised in Lucian's Hermotimus which I think is one of his best dialogs. He really dives well into the issue of how you can judge among competing philosophies …

Here is the part of the Hermotimus dialog which addresses the problem of everyone pointing to their own school as the way to the truth, and the traveler not knowing which one to believe as the best guide: (Quote)

In regard to the relationship between logic and reality I have another point: it ought to be clear that to discuss "pleasure is the goal of life" is a logical abstraction itself, and not really something that is "real" - just the same as if we were to say that "virtue" or "being a good person" is "the" goal of life. The truth is that real people exist only in the present, and our goals are intimately connected with the reality of the present. Our "real" goal at Amy one moment is very mundane: it…