Search Results

(Quote from Godfrey) Doesn't sound like nitpicking to me

(Quote from Kalosyni) Here's my take from my translation of the last part of section 127 of the letter to Menoikeus made into a bulleted list: "Furthermore, ... on the one hand, there are the natural desireson the other, the 'empty, fruitless, or vain ones.' And of the natural ones, on the one hand, are the necessary ones; on the other, the ones which are only natural; then, of the necessary ones: on the one hand, those necessary for eudaimonia; then, those necessary for the freedom from disturb…

(Quote from Kalosyni) Agree with Kalosyni on that. Additionally, I advocate getting away from the natural and "unnatural" descriptors. There are natural desires - those arising from nature - and those that are not natural arising from fruitless, void, groundless, empty beliefs. They are κεναί: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/h…1999.04.0057:entry=keno/s That's a much better description of what they are than unnatural. Unnatural implies they are somehow not human. They are unfortunately very human de…

My take has been to understand Epicurus's point as "If your circumstances, for some reason, made it so that you *had* to live in a cave by yourself on the barest of necessities, you *could* find pleasure in that since you're still alive and Nature can supply your necessary needs. BUT it is NOT necessary to live this way. Living among friends, discussing and practicing philosophy, making all your choices and rejections based on practical wisdom and other sound criteria, living neither with too mu…

(Quote from Cassius) Not intentional bias. VS63 warns of choosing too much frugality. The letter to Menoikeus clearly says that "an endless string of drinking parties and festivals" is not how Epicurus defines pleasure. So... One is looking for pain with too much frugality or too much "sex, drugs, and rock and roll."

(Quote from Epicurus) It seems to me that he's clearly stating that an "endless string" of drinking parties and those others do not fall under his definition when he says "pleasure is the goal/end/telos." He's not being coy or obtuse. When we say this, we don't mean that.

(Quote from Cassius) LOL. I don't think we read it that differently in the end in light of your explanation there. He clearly didn't forbid attendance at drinking parties. He wrote a book entitled Symposium after all. I too think the emphasis is on the "endless". And it doesn't really say that in the Greek. Here are my notes from my commentary: οὐ συνείροντες (ou syneirontes) "not stringing together" "not an endless string of drinking parties and festivals…" Note that he doesn't say you can't at…

(Quote from reneliza)

I'm not sure anyone's done this yet, but I thought it might be instructive to see where the word empty "kenōs" is used in other places. Saint-Andre translation of PD29 which includes the scholia commentary 29 Among desires, some are natural and necessary, some are natural and unnecessary, and some are unnatural and unnecessary (arising instead from groundless opinion). (Epicurus regards as natural and necessary desires which bring relief from pain, as e.g. drink when we are thirsty ; while by na…

(Quote from reneliza) I like where you're going in this paragraph! What are the ends you're working toward? That has to be answered by someone "pursuing wealth." Wealth for wealth's sake is empty. Wealth for a specific pleasure or pleasurable goal could be something different. Although it could also be problematic if it's working for wealth only to be enjoyed decades from now and not finding any pleasure now. If I've misconstrued your intentions with those lines, just let me know. (Quote from re…