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(Quote from Godfrey) Between this and Don’s note that the word Epicurus uses (in Menoeceus at least) is not “unnatural” but “void” this thread quickly became one of other people making the exact points I wanted to make before I even caught up. The only thing that has been kind of inferred in this conversation, but I haven’t seen explicitly stated: it’s my thought that the void/fruitless/vain desires are those that are infinite and therefore unquenchable. These are desires that are by definition …

It doesn't feel like a problem to me. I think it probably is difficult to communicate to non-Epicureans (or the Epicurious...which now that I think of it is already a thing...) but my view is that the necessary should always be pursued and the vain should never be pursued (I mean, I hate the word "should" but in my understanding, not having the N/N is always net painful, and pursuit of the void is always net painful, so that's as close to a "should" as I'm willing to get), and - as someone has a…

(Quote from Don) That’s definitely where I was going with that, although it may be worth clarifying what I meant by “eventually” which was less temporal (of course sometimes payoffs are not immediate, but I agree that it can be dangerous if there’s no payoff immediately, especially if the long term payoff is particularly far off or otherwise uncertain) and more just a chain of reasoning. Like a kid asking “but why?” until you get frustrated and just admit “because it feels good!” Haha For exampl…