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  • The primary Epicurean Philosophy Facebook group is here. The largest Epicurus "page" is here.
  • Just a reminder and a request for this topic: Over the years we have received a lot of benefit from participating on Facebook, and were it not for the Facebook Epicurean forum I doubt this EpicureanFriends forum would exist. However for the last couple of months (and years) I have been reducing my activity on Facebook largely to just posting notices of new podcast episodes, and wishing people a happy Twentieth. Martin and I continue to monitor the page each week, but we are not posting much orig…
  • Right the issues that waterholic and pacatus have observed are largely the reason the Epicurean forum at facebook is being little used right now. However, and it is ironic as heck, but this forum would not be here had I not initially met enough people over the years on Facebook to generate interest in kicking up my efforts a notch. So I do think that a great deal of benefit can come from participating there, but it has to be strictly watched and budgeted or else you end up arguing over and over …
  • That is hard to say Pacatus as to how many regularly check in at Facebook or here. I bet we actually have more "regulars" here than at Facebook, but the issue is that the EP group at facebook has been "liked" many thousands of times, and posts there go far and wide but to non-committed readers. Our FB group was and I think is the largest "Epicurus" group, and tons of people search Epicurus casually and like it. So it really does have the potential to be seen much more than material posted here -…
  • I just checked FB and it says the EP page there has 3.9 thousand "members." Of course that is not realistic as to who sees the posts, but it is still a significant number. I need to look up how many "members" we have had here over time, but I doubt that we have more than a hundred (and probably less) people who regularly check in - even lurkers included. The forum software says we had 1022 "visits" today, which would include lurking non-members, but I have no idea what that really means and sure…
  • Yes waterholic the work we do here is very helpful but I see it for myself and others as the first step, not by any means the last. I personally feel a lot more competent to articulate a message than I did 10+ years ago when I started, but there is no way I / we would have gotten better without the ability to discuss and interact. Reading and studying alone is a necessity but will never produce the confidence in expression that interaction brings. But once we gain some level of competence that's…
  • Here's another example (the number is endless) of what happens when one jumps right to the ethics. We could paste this in any of a hundred threads here but I just saw this through Kalosyni and it's on my mind at the moment. If you DON"T get the grounding Don is talking about, this is the kind of mishmash you come up with: From: https://www.verywellmind.com/e…phy-and-happiness-4177914 This is a totally different picture of pursuing an Epicurean life than I think most of us here hold, or that we t…
  • I almost want to laugh out loud: How do you set up an outline of Epicurean happiness without ever mentioning "pleasure"? But after laughing out loud it really make me mad, or better stated, resolved to do as much as possible to improve the situation. This isn't just innocent misunderstanding or misrepresentation. It's the result of trying to be all things to all people, and of trying to say to all the hard-core religionists and absolutists of the world: "You don't have to put aside any of your c…
  • (Quote from waterholic) Yes of course it is and that is what "we" need to do. It's a huge job but you have to start somewhere, and not let the awful state of current discussions of Epicurus discourage us.
  • (Quote from Kalosyni) That leads back into the question whether happiness is a feeling or an abatraction - the "map vs the territory issue.". As a feeling, we can say we feel happy and that's that. But as an abstraction we can list generalities that generally lead people to consider themselves to be happy, but it's probably not possible to create a definitive list because each situation is different. (And I really should not hedge with that "probably.") As a map the word happiness helps us defin…
  • On that last point - of the difference between happiness as a feeling and happiness as an abstraction (the issue of the difference between maps and the real world): Torquatus: Hence Epicurus refuses to admit any necessity for argument or discussion to prove that pleasure is desirable and pain to be avoided. These facts, be thinks, are perceived by the senses, as that fire is hot, snow white, honey sweet, none of which things need be proved by elaborate argument: it is enough merely to draw atten…
  • I didn't read the link but the distinction in the text you quoted seems to be making the same point. We can "feel happy" and know it just by observing the feeling (which is pleasurable). But if we start looking to evaluate "happiness" and whether we meet that evaluation, it's a much more intellectual process that involves a lot more than feelings. I actually think "joy" has the same issue (and really, the issue is not with the particular word, but with "words" in and of themselves). I can no dou…
  • Don I have read parts of Nichomachean ethics but not all. My understanding of one of the major issues is that Aristotle ultimately has no good foundation for what is virtue or the best life other than looking around to see what the leading citizens of Athens choose to do. So that flourishing or whatever terms he employs end up being without a clear foundation such as "pleasure" or even "do what the gods tell you to do" (religion). Even his "prime mover" position ends up being useless in providin…