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  • 5 - By His Victory Religion Was Trampled.png By his victory, the terror of religion is trampled underfoot, and we, in turn, are lifted to the stars. Quare religio pedibus subiecta vicissim opteritur, nos exaequat victoria caelo. This highly memorable line is a good one to review the Latin and alternate translations. Here are several renditions in English, and all of them make much the same point. It appears to me that Munro might be the most strictly literal, with Brown and Humphries emphasizing…
  • Yes I agree that some form of "to the skies" is a good non-religious metaphor that makes the most sense. As for the line numbers i will probably go to my grave never being happy with a numbering system. I've taken lately to using the Loeb numbers and I kept all this designated at under line 62 because Loeb doesn't give another line number until 80. I presume that these are just discretionary paragraph divisions so I think as a compromise from here on out I am going to make all my digital version…
  • Don what do you think about the "terror" / "fear" versions? Is there anything in the Latin to justify that or is that just more translator editorializing ?
  • I guess the vicissim opteritur is what I haven't drilled into far enough
  • (Quote from JJElbert) Thank you for catching that Joshua -- I am not sure where that came from! I will correct. As I write this I can't remember if I had a source for that particular version or just mashed them together in a way that seemed logical at the time. That's part of the reason for my exercise in doing this because I'd like to check each one of the "slides" in this presentation and then use it for a systematic presentation of the philosophy. So thank you!
  • 142-foundations-005-by-his-victory-religion-is-trampled-underfoot/ (Quote from Don) That is an example of the kind of homespun rules of construction that I think MUST be correct, and have to be important to follow. My reasoning for that is that the Romans were not any better mind-readers than we are. They HAD to be able to make sense of a spoken sentence AS THEY WERE HEARING IT, and they could not wait until the end of some monumentally long line to find the "verb" and then reorient everything …
  • Does anyone have an opinion as to how the Latin Library textstacks up against Perseus or other online sources of the Latin Lucretius? I don't think I have the resources to retype the whole thing so I will probably use the Latin Library text in my materials unless someone has a much better source? Back to the issue of paragraph numbering, I've always wanted to be able to swap back and forth from section to section (almost like Joshua's interlinear) so that means that I may take the Loeb paragraph…
  • (Quote from Don) No reason for apology at all. As we have AMPLY seen, the translators - even in narrative form - cannot be trusted not to do their own editorializing by omitting or adding words/concepts. The only way to be confident in the final result is to check them. I do think that we can form a generalized impression of a particular writer -- such as my own views which I constantly revise but that I will list here: Munro tends to be highly literal but can be awkward to read; Bailey is a mor…
  • (Quote from JJElbert) Yes I agree. At first I thought daring in a negative way, but on quick second thought I think your point is that it doubles down on the as religious aspect, and I agree. I think I will have to add this to my mental list of examples where I think the Brown translator is more in tune with Epicurus and Lucretius than the later translators. I tend to think this is an example (especially compared to Smith) where we have moved further away from the meaning of Lucretius over the l…
  • Don that "in turn" reminds me of the statement made earlier in the poem about a double-edged victory. It looks like its Book 3 around 510. Here is Bailey but I think it's more clear in some others. Maybe it's just poetic reinforcement by repetition, but this earlier passage makes me think there might be something about "doubling-down" in Epicurean thought. (Quote) Munro: (Quote) Interestingly Brown does not highlight the "doubling" or "two-fold" (Quote) But Loeb does: (Quote) Latin from Perseus …
  • Seeing the Stallings version pushes me back in the direction of the ultimate implication being, as per Browne, that the result of the victory is that we live "as gods." That's what would be sanctioned by Epicurus suggesting we live as gods among men, and Lucretius himself comparing Epicurus to a god. I suppose I need to think generically about what it means to go "to the skies" or "to the heavens" but I am not sure I see other allusions in the Epicurean texts to "to the stars" or "to the skies" …