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  • Very good conversation starter. You've given a good "definition" of self preservation, but we probably need to specifically state what we mean by "a virtue" or "a virtue in Epicurean philosophy" too. Because we have the overarching principle that pleasure is the guide to everything, so nothing can be virtuous if it does not promote pleasure (which I think we can consider to include within "promoting pleasure" the subset of activities included in "avoiding pain"). So keeping in mind that the goa…
  • (Quote from Godfrey)Stated that way, Godfrey, what *would* you say is "an Epicurean virtue"?
  • Ah Godfrey that reminds me that we miss you (and others) who have not been able to attend the Skype Book Reviews. This past week JAWS raised the excellent point that DeWitt's list seems to be more of his personal list of how to fit Epicurean positions into a "virtue framework," rather than there really being a list of "Epicurean virtues" documentable in the texts. Did they in fact have a list of "virtues" different from the standard list? Did they consider it useful to have their own list of ch…
  • (Quote from Garden Dweller) I wonder if this is sufficiently generalized to reflect that sometimes we will choose to die for a friend?
  • Both of those last comments by Elayne are more reasons why I think it would be very productive to spend more time on unpacking exactly what is meant by the term "pleasure." Just like "happiness" we throw the word around as if it is obvious but it has many subtleties that need to be explicitly understood.
  • Garden Dweller that opens up an interesting discussion from a lot of directions but you do seem to be able to fit each of those more details word descriptions into one or the other category (pain or pleasure). That's why I think that the real issue is not that there should be a more precise definition of pleasure and pain, but that in the end we are really talking about "feeling" in the sense of "feeling" vs divine revelation or ideal forms or abstract logic. Feelings are essentially "sensation…