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  • I would agree that there are multiple pleasures and multiple components that lead to a pleasurable life. Saying "pleasure is the highest good" doesn't mean it's the "best good thing among rivals." It means it's the goid thing toward which every other rival points. It's at the apex of possible candidates for all good things. That doesn't mean prudence isn't good. We practice prudence and justice and virtue because they lead to pleasure. They are instrumental goods to leading a pleasurable life, w…
  • (Quote from Kalosyni) Yep, because the practice of philosophy "the love and practice of wisdom" leads to living pleasurably (also translated sweetly, joyously). (Quote from Kalosyni) The context is important here, too. In the lines directly before this, Epicurus is writing about not endorsing the pleasures of the profligate and making decisions that will lead to a pleasurable life. Practical wisdom - phronesis - is essential for making those decisions on what desires to choose and which to rejec…
  • Decades ago (literally), I remember thinking (and I'm sure it's not original to me) that "the meaning of life is a verb, not a noun." Life is meant to be lived. Now I think, Epicurus's philosophy is that life is meant to be lived pleasurably. Our life's path points to pleasure as our North Star. It is the destination. Along the way there will be obstacles, taking our path along circuitous routes to that goal, some painful and tortuous. But we keep our eyes on the North Star to guide us in the ri…
  • That *was* Epicurus's rebellion against SPA (I'll be contrary and say ΣΠΑ ) "You're all wrong. The highest good - the star by which you should steer your ship - is the feeling of pleasure or pain. Steer towards pleasure. I don't have to 'prove' this with flowery rhetoric or fancy logic. I point to children and animals, to blessed Nature herself. That is sufficient. You all are deluding yourselves and your students with talk of virtue and 'the beautiful, the honorable (kalos).' I spit on the kalo…
  • (Quote from Kalosyni) To return to Kalosyni 's original statement... The are myriad, numerous experiences and components to laud in the "sweetest life", but the most important - the "highest" thing - to laud IS that they are part of our sweetest life possible. According to Epicurus, all we choose to do should point us in the direction of living the sweetest life. Sometimes we choose (or have no choice due to disease, death of someone close, etc.) to experience pain for a greater, pleasurable goa…
  • (Quote from Cassius) Hmmm. I may quibble with your wording and want to debate *again* the importance of the distinction between desires and "pleasure as the feeling and guide"... But I'll control myself until Kalosyni has a chance to consider our back and forth and respond.
  • Oh, you know I'm itching to "reply" to Socrates, but I'll control myself.
  • Last comment from me, Cassius : Are those quotes from Philebus or your paraphrases?
  • (Quote from Cassius) https://www.dictionary.com/e/w…03/its-a-trap-300x300.gif
  • (Quote from Kalosyni) I think you know more than you think you do. A. Yes! Agreed! B. Yes, although I'd suggest a slight edit... Using wisdom and reason, I make choices to pursue my goal of living joyously and sweetly (i.e., pleasurably). Wisdom and reason in this case are instrumental goods used to work toward the highest good of living joyously and sweetly. As to your last part, Epicurus had this to say: "some things happen of necessity, others by chance, others through our own agency."
  • I completely agree it's up to Kalosyni to say if she is in agreement with what Godfrey and I have added. But, it at least seems to me, by entertaining the idea that pleasure can be the guiding principle of one's life, to quote Obi-Wan Kenobi (to stick with Star Wars references), "You've taken your first step into a larger world." I sympathize with Cassius 's perspective and concerns, but... We did briefly discuss the "stealth" Epicurean concepts in modern culture recently. Bringing those to ligh…