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  • This book is being released approximately now, as this thread is being posted. However it is not in Amazon.com or BarnesandNoble.com as of this posting. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pleas…?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=&
  • Thanks again Samj! I am now wondering if she's holding this off the American market with the intent of releasing the book that has the September date on it. Not sure why that would be, though.
  • I now have my copy of the book but have only begun to go through it. My eye was caught, however, but this Stoic v Epicurean comparison chart near the end of the book. In particular, the description of the Epicurean "purpose of ethics" as "freedom from harm" and "happiness" as "freedom from anxiety and fear" strike me as grave distortions of Epicurus (but in accord with the modern majority view). Much of the rest of the chart looks generally Ok to me, but the entire chart seems a little "loose" …
  • I agree with you as to "orientation" Joshua. And I bet if I had taken the trouble to read the text first, there might be explanations there that would make it clear. As to "moral relativism" the more I think about anything involving "morality" the more I question whether the Epicureans even spoke in that term as we use it today. Certainly they spoke about "virtue" and "good" and "evil" but do we have good cites from Epicurus or Lucretius talking about "morality" as anything other than tied to p…
  • Ha - I just came across this which I have never seen before but is relevant to our discussion of "morality"pasted-from-clipboard.png"Catherine Wilson asserts the MORAL right to be identified as the author of this book!" Is this some kind of new phrasing in international copyright law? Good grief. I would have thought that "Copyright Catherine Wilson 2019" was sufficient for that, must we appeal to absolute morality in a book on Epicurus???
  • If I understand your points I think I agree with all you wrote. I realize as I think about things things that I am trying to take these issues to their logical conclusion. IF there is nothing eternal except matter in motion through the void, and if the universe has no "center" and no "outside" from which a creating power looks on and says "THIS is good and THAT is bad" then we are truly left with the feelings of pleasure and pain as the motivation for all action. We can set our sights on things…
  • "where the strong make decisions and the weak suffer what they must is a contradiction in terms, " I know that what you say applies to me, but it concerns me that this comes close to drawing a bright line that may not be in fact so bright. Is it not possible to imagine situations where the strong do make decisions for the weak that do in fact lead to greater pleasure for both? Is a parent child relationship such an example? Generalities are useful but the closer we get to stating that anything …
  • joshua I appreciate your helping me think these things through. Like i said I am trying to put my myself in the place of someone who tries to stay as rigorously consistent with the principles as possible without injecting my / our modern viewpoint. But it's of course hard to do that so it helps to test the arguments against ever more extreme test cases to see if they can stand the strain. So far I think they can if we rigorously reject the idea that any law or morality can be the same for all pe…
  • (Quote from Elayne)Oh I missed that and I completely agree with this.
  • JAWS: I very much agree with your comments. Let me explain on each point:1) Yes I agree that the sentence you quote stands on its on, as part of a list, and doesn't gain any context from the surrounding sentences (see clip below). And I agree with your interpretation, and I think Wilson is wrong. From the discussion of friendship we know that Epicurus asserted that the foundation of friendship is in the utility it has for us in bringing pleasure, and even when we get to the point that we value …