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  • Welcome to Episode Fifty-One of Lucretius Today. I am your host Cassius, and together with my panelists from the EpicureanFriends.com forum, we'll walk you through the six books of Lucretius' poem, and discuss how Epicurean philosophy can apply to you today. Be aware that none of us are professional philosophers, and everyone here is a self-taught Epicurean. We encourage you to study Epicurus for yourself, and we suggest the best place to start is the book, "Epicurus and His Philosophy" by Canad…
  • I note that in the prior episode I raised questions about whether (1) the images were themselves composed of "atoms" pushing forward through the space between us and the things we observe, or (2) whether the atoms were simply setting up vibrations in the air that do the traveling. This text today seems to touch on that -- on first reading, it's definitely talking about pushing air, but also in way that seems to indicate that atoms from the surface of objects are traveling too, so maybe they were…
  • Episode Fifty-One of the Lucretius Today Podcast is now available. In today's episode, we begin book four, and start the discussion of "images." As always we invite your comments and suggestions. spreaker.com/episode/42765802
  • (Quote from Don) On this point i read a little from DeWitt on the workings of vision in the podcast today, and you're definitely right in your flashlight comment. DeWitt says Plato and/or Democritus held to that view.
  • In this episode we get into a discussion of how images of things which never existed can be formed by images becoming distorted as they move through the air. Probably the most specific reference on point to this is in regard to centaurs, and here is a clip with that reference. This is around Latin line 736: (Actually I need to check to see whether this is discussion is Episode 52 (not posted as of this writing) or 51)
  • I tend to think that clouds may provide a useful example to discuss but that we should not link this topic to closely to clouds so as to imply that clouds are the only or even a primary example. For the same reason I am concerned that focus on calling them "self-generated images" may be too limiting. My suspicion is that this subject of particle flows is like eternity and infinity - the implications of this are huge and Epicurus is following the implications much more deeply than we would think …
  • I agree to this extent - that I don't like the term "self-generated" or even "self-arising" and I am not suggesting that they are self-generated even under the suggestions I am making. What this text seems to clearly indicate to me is that due to natural movements of particles just like all others the images become enmeshed in ways that were not generated by an actual object in the first place, just like any kind of wave is going to be altered by contact with another wave. It's in our minds that…
  • I suspect what we're talking about here is going to clarify as we proceed to talk about more details in the rest of the poem, so I'll just keep an open mind and we'll see where the discussion goes. (Quote from Elayne) I think this comment indicates what we can look at as we proceed to clarify things. But already I would say I would not approach it from the "didn't conceive" perspective because it seems more likely to me that he certainly would have entertained that possibility (for example is it…
  • (Quote from Martin) Martin I probably expressed my point poorly, and the way you state this, I wonder if that makes mirages exactly a GOOD analogy to what Epicurus appears to be saying. He seems to be saying that the centaurs that are rarely but sometimes seen may be real optical phenomena too?