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  • That's a great question. Here are some first off the cuff thoughts. One thing that immediately comes to mind and was apparently memorized would be perhaps the first five or so principal doctrines. Another would be an excerpt from one of the opening sections of the six books of Lucretius. Of these: Maybe most obvious would be from book one, and for this purpose, pure "ring," I have always preferred the Humphries version:When human life, all too conspicuous, Lay foully groveling on earth, weighed …
  • Yes I think that the material I cited has lots of good stuff in it, but it would need to be reworded for use with a young child. I think you are right especially about PD5 and the wise/honor/just issue being dangerously Platonic-sounding for someone who doesn't yet understand that those terms are relative/subjective rather than being absolute. It might be that one of more of the Vatican Sayings is more easily employable. I've always thought that some kind of wording of 47 might be good: 47. I ha…
  • Camotero it's great that you are giving thought to where to start. Given the Epicurean emphasis on being up front and frank and not "hiding the ball" like they accused Socrates of doing, no matter what you choose to emphasize you're in the role of leader and it's not necessarily a problem that you're asking them to repeat things that they don't fully understand. On the other hand if they don't understand it at all there's not much point in it. I keep thinking that perhaps the most fruitful path …
  • As for that translation above from PD24, I would like to blame Bailey for it, but I have rarely if ever seen one by anyone else that makes for clear reading either. Like Joshua said, the point in the end is not really so difficult but the wording is labyrinthine: 24. If you reject any single sensation, and fail to distinguish between the conclusion of opinion, as to the appearance awaiting confirmation, and that which is actually given by the sensation or feeling, or each intuitive apprehension …
  • I ran out of time earlier to play with this but I will do that now: Strodach: Bailey: Paraphrase: Simplification: "24. If you summarily rule out any single sensation 24. If you reject any single sensation, 24 If you reject any evidence provided by your senses If you fail to consider the evidence provided by your faculties [your senses, anticipations, and feelings] and do not make a distinction between the element of belief that is superimposed on a percept that awaits verification and fail to di…
  • In evaluating that PD24 I think it's critical that we consider the DeLacy categories we've been discussing recently, because it seems likely that what we are discussing is not just an issue of "true vs false." We have to consider the "multivalent" aspect that several possibilities can be considered "true" at one time, even if they are not the same, and that leads us to a deeper definition of what 'true' should be considered to mean. We need to start out with the understanding that there are many…
  • i think its always one of the best approaches to compare different translations so thanks for those variations. I tend to think Saint Andre is going off the beam in this one but even when we think a version is less accurate it helps to discuss where and why we disagree.
  • I do like the phrase "present reality" - I think it's a premise that's what real to us is what comes to us from the senses, so calling that 'reality' is a good reminder. As far as "throwing other sensations into confusion" that seems less than optimum, because I doubt Epicurus would say that the senses can ever be confused - it's our opinion about them and what they say that can be confused. "rejecting altogether the criterion" may be less than optimum too as the reference to what "criterion" is…
  • (Quote from Don) Yes i agree with your conclusion, but I'll pick nits and smile and say that "throw your other sensations into confusion...." could be improved because the "senses" are never confused, are they?
  • There's an awful lot to be said for rhyme and - what's the term? - "meter" or "pacing"? Shows how little I know about poetry, but the bottom line is that reads very well and sticks in the memory!
  • I was looking over this thread again and I keep coming back to Thomas Jefferson here: (Quote from Cassius) Seems to me that he must have given a lot of thought to exactly the question Camotero is asking - that of coming up with a pithy summary to serve in his words as his habitual anodyne - ("I was obliged to recur ultimately to my habitual anodyne...") Seems to me that he did a pretty good job of summing up the essentials of Epicurean physics, or maybe we should think of if as a perspective on …
  • Great approach, Charles - and that reminds me of something else, and I cannot believe that a search here does not pull it up....
  • Wagner struggles with the issues of pleasure and pain in his Tannhauseur, and he makes the hero waiver back and forth, but some of the excerpts when he is praising pleasure and great poetry, especially when combined with his music. In this 30 minute clip I capture some of the most important of the pleasure/pain discussion. I've cued this to a short song outburst that is one of the best: After the post I have cued, the second scene in this clip is also excellent. In the song contest, the hero sin…