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This thread grows out of another thread, specifically my "soapboxing" posts that were a response to @A_Gardner and @Cassius where I "took a stand for ataraxia." For those who don't want too much review, my primary contentions were: Epicurus advocates strengthening a quiet, calm, anxiety-free mind. Equanimity/tranquility/ataraxia is available at all times, even under duress and trying circumstances. IF we can cultivate ataraxia, we have a much better chance of making a good choice to remove, move…

I really started down this road in part with the discovery of Metrodorus being quoted in Clement of Alexandria's Stromata II.131, p. 498 which states (in translation ) (Quote from Clement of Alexandria) The primary source for my contention was simply the title of Metrodorus's book: On the Source of Happiness in Ourselves being greater than that which arises from Objects. The Greek title reads: Περι του μειζονα ειναι την παρ' ημας αιτιαν προς ευδαιμονιαν της εκ των πραγματων αγαθον. The idea that…

The description of kinetic and katastematic from The Faith of Epicurus by Benjamin Farrington (1967) is spot on from my perspective: (Quote from Farrington, p. 132) I posted a screenshot of this page on a prior thread.

Wow! Y'all have been busy. I'll respond to your various points, but I had to provide some context for my musk ox analogy. The musk ox (umingmak "the bearded one" in the language of the Inuit) is easily my favorite animal, followed closely by the tardigrade (yes, big nerd here). In the habitat in which the musk ox lives - the northern Arctic tundra - there are no trees, no bushes, nothing to hide behind. In fact, they typically prefer windswept land in winter where the wind keeps the snow swept a…

(Quote from Cassius) As I remember, DL doesn't list all of Epicurus's titles either. There are titles mentioned elsewhere that aren't in his list.

I'm finding it difficult to swipe between Kalosyni 's responses and my first post, so for easier reference, here are the two closer to each other. (Quote from Don with Kalosyni's responses) So, that'll be a little easier to refer to. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with Kalosyni's points at this point, but I do think they move the conversation forward. Thanks!

(Quote from Godfrey) Hey! Anything to make them musk ox more Epicurean So, we can't judge what brings the musk ox pleasure!

I'm putting this here primarily as an interesting tidbit but also partly in reference to numbers 7 & 8 on my initial list. From Philodemus, On Choices and Avoidances, columns 4 and 5: [4] [Epicurus teaches us that good is easy for us to procure] and that evil is [not] only limited precisely because it is useless to have defined the good (τἀγαθόν), if it is difficult, if not impossible, for us to attain, nor to have fixed limits to evil, if it is difficult to bear because of its long duration. Th…

(Quote from Cassius) Easy is due to the eu- prefix on the verbs in lines 3 & 4 of the Tetrapharmakos. Take a look at the LSJ definitions for a number of words in ancient Greek that begin eu-. Many have the connotation of easy, easily, without effort, honestly, etc.

(Quote from Cassius) It's a mashup of Tsouna, Les Epicuriens, and the text from the actual papyrus at papyri.info. No individual cite, just the Philodemus.

(Quote from Cassius) Line 3: euktēton εὔκτητον http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/h…%3Aentry%3Deu%29%2Fkthtos Line 4: euekkarterēton εὐεκκαρτέρητον http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/h…ry%3Deu%29ekkarte%2Frhtos Compare euekkritos http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/h…Aentry%3Deu%29e%2Fkkritos

(Quote from Kalosyni) This question is similar to the whole "Eskimos have a hundred words for snow" myth. The Inuit may have individual words for different types of snow, but English can still convey the meaning. It just takes more words. The may be one word in Inuktitut for it, but English can still say "packed snow that can be used to track an animal etc." As to "who gets to decide", the authority at the present is the LSJ for ancient Greek that's available on Perseus. The Thesaurus Linguae La…

Another excerpt of interest from Epicurus, On Nature, book 14, column 24 (using Les Epicuriens, Google Translate on the French, and the papyrus transcription): ...we must count ourselves fortunate in this, too - that all who are engaged in such trivialities may have some sort of remedy by which it is possible, simply to attain at times calmness (κα̣τα̣στάσεις katastaseis) in the contemplation of nature, to get rid of their inborn ([σ]υμφύτου; French: connaturel) [trouble; ταραχ]ῆς], which even l…

(Quote from Kalosyni) Nor Bailey. He simply references PD15: XV. The wealth demanded by Nature is both limited and easily procured; that demanded by idle imaginings stretches on to infinity. (Bailey) ὁ τῆς φύσεως πλοῦτος καὶ ὥρισται καὶ εὐπόριστός ἐστιν, ὁ δὲ τῶν κενῶν δοξῶν (kenōn doxōn "empty beliefs/ principles/ doctrines") εἰς ἄπειρον (apeiron - one of the words Epicurus used to describe the extent of the universe) ἐκπίπτει.

As literal as possible: ὁ τῆς φύσεως πλοῦτος "The wealth of nature..." καὶ ὥρισται* καὶ εὐπόριστός ἐστιν, "is the best and easily procured... ὁ δὲ τῶν κενῶν δοξῶν (kenōn doxōn "empty beliefs/principles/doctrines") εἰς ἄπειρον ἐκπίπτει. "But that of empty opinions runs onto infinity." *πλοῦτος ploutos. Ex., plutocracy. Wealth, riches. **ὥρισται is, according to LSJ, a contraction of ὁ ἄριστος (o aristos) from which we get aristocracy. So, it literally means "best, finest; best in its kind, and so…

(Quote from Cassius) Yeah, I don't see *required* in the Greek. It literally just says "is" ἐστιν.

(Quote from Joshua) I had thoughts of ataraxia under duress watching this interview with David Hogg. He addresses the idea specifically (using calm not ataraxia, of course) starting around 0:58. youtu.be/npA54A3Cq14

(Quote from Kalosyni) [37] "Hence, since such a course is of service to all who take up natural science, I, who devote to the subject my continuous energy and reap the calm enjoyment of a life like this" ~ Epicurus, Letter to Herodotus ἐγγαληνίζω τῷ βίῳ, "spend life calmly" from γαληνίζω , A.calm, still, esp. waves or winds, Hp.Vict.3.71, E.Fr.1079. 2. intr., become calm, prob. in Hp. Morb.Sacr.13; to be calm or tranquil, Alex.178.6, Ph.1.354; “τὸ γαληνίζον τῆς θαλάττης” Arist.Pr.936a5:—so in Me…

(Quote from Kalosyni) And at the end of the letter to Herodotus, Epicurus writes: "It is of such a sort that those who are already tolerably, or even perfectly, well acquainted with the details can, by analysis of what they know into such elementary perceptions as these, best prosecute their researches in physical science as a whole ; while those, on the other hand, who are not altogether entitled to rank as mature students can in silent fashion and as quick as thought run over the doctrines mos…

I haven't decided if this is going to be useful or not, but I went through Diogenes Laertius, Book 10, and pulled out the times that ataraxia (or a form of the word) shows up: Epicurus, Letter to Herodotus: [80] we must not suppose that our treatment of these matters fails of accuracy, so far as it is needful to ensure our tranquillity and happiness*. When, therefore, we investigate the causes of celestial and atmospheric phenomena, as of all that is unknown, we must take into account the variet…