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  • Cassius

    Replied to the thread Some Epicurean conclusions.
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    Stan85 I think you raise great questions, but as you would expect I see the answers differently. Out of curiosity, how old are you (generally) and what is your religious background?

    I am almost 60, and was raised mainline/conservative protestant in the…
  • Cassius

    Posted the thread Welcome Stan85!.
    Thread
    Welcome Stan85 ! Thank you for introducing yourself! Thank you for joining us!
  • Cassius

    Replied to the thread Greetings.
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    Glad to have you Stan85! I will set up a Welcome message like I do for everyone, but thank you for introducing yourself first!!
  • Stan85

    Posted the thread Some Epicurean conclusions.
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    I'm not an expert, but it seems obvious to me that these ethical conclusions follow from Epicurean principles:

    1. Being absolutely mortal, I have no stake in the future.

    2. I owe the world (or "humanity") nothing, and I am owed nothing by the world…
  • Stan85

    Posted the thread Greetings.
    Thread
    I wouldn't consider myself a disciple of the Epicurean philosophy, but I'm interested in it as an object of study.

    I believe that the Epicurean conception of the universe is essentially that of modern science-- essentially in that whatever differences…
  • Happy Twentieth of May!

    Epicurus is famously known to written: “To sea with your swift ship, blessed boy, and flee from all education (paideia, also translated as culture).” This remark come to us with no context, as our only source is D.L. 10.6,…
  • Hiram

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    Daniel Van Orman do you mean fixing your section "Teachings on Higher Pleasures"?

    My favorite summary on pleasure as the end is the one I drew from Lampe's book on the Cyrenaics, which I mention in the Aristippus essay, under "Ethics":

    (Quote)


    This…
  • ***"They mistake for happiness the mere absence of pain"** We have had several threads lately relevant to the argument as to whether reason or the emotions take precedence in Epicurean philosophy. If you're not familiar with it, and if you continue to…
  • Cassius

    Thread
    Shall we abandon Epicurean philosophy due to the latest big thing going around that tells us to doubt the senses? (if someone has a better link please post) of course not, but we need to understand the implications and appropriate response to issues…
  • Cassius

    Thread
    Poster at Facebook: Epicurus seemingly retreated to the Garden according to DeWitt because of fear of his life, many modern people say this is a big reason why they won't be an Epicurean because they want to make change and involve themselves in…
  • Over at the Facebook group this question was asked:

    Poster: I have been intrigued by the rather famous remark of Karl Popper which states that evil has more weight than good. Or at least that there is "no symmetry between pain and pleasure". Popper…
  • Daniel Van Orman

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    Hiram
    Looking over the hedonism summary now, I see it really needs to be reworded. However, I am not sure what parts, if any, are incorrect. If you would please help me remake or fix the hedonism summary, I would appreciate it.

    I created the current…
  • Cassius

    Thread
    There is a modern tendency to read Epicurus as advising the avoidance of exertion and therefore doing as little as possible in every field but the obtaining of necessary and natural pleasures (bread, water, shelter). I read Epicurus as advising the…
  • Cassius

    Thread
    As participation in the forum expands over time, it will be very helpful if new participants will let us know about their level of background and opinions in the areas of Epicurean physics and Epicurean canonics/epistemology. Many people come here…
  • Cassius

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    Daniel: You've posted two threads essentially on the issue of "maximal utility" with a lot of detailed pluses and minuses from an ETHICAL point of view. I've been wondering about how to begin to sort these out and I just realized that since you are…
  • Cassius

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    Daniel: You've two threads essentially on the issue of "maximal utility" with a lot of detailed pluses and minuses from an ETHICAL point of view. I've been wondering about how to begin to sort these out and I just realized that since you are new to…
  • Hiram

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    On the different kinds of pleasure and the kyriotatai (chief goods), Philodemus wrote (and I commented on) this

    Reasonings About Philodemus’ On Choices and Avoidances (Part I)

    Reasonings About Philodemus’ On Choices and Avoidances (Part II)

  • Hiram

    Post
    (Quote from Daniel Van Orman)

    Yes, pleasure motivates every decision we make, but I do not think that we have a "moral responsibility" or "duty" to increase it or decrease our own or others' pain. We are free. Duties are only born from the contracts we…
  • Daniel Van Orman

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    Criticisms against Principle of Maximal Utility:
    This thread is dedicated to arguments against the principle of maximal utility. It focuses more on theoretical and generic applications and meanings of it.

    The four principles listed under "Before…
  • Cassius

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    Wow Daniel again thank you for the effort involved in these posts. They are all so intricate and detailed, even though you have posted general guidelines about how you think the topics are best approached. Is there a way to summarize that in a…
  • Daniel Van Orman

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    Reserved for future updates.
  • Daniel Van Orman

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    Integrity

    If Jim killed one of the Indians, wouldn't he be a murderer? Why should Jim be morally obligated to do something evil? Also, if murder is acceptable in certain cases, is everything acceptable? (see the "Possible Exceptions for Everything"…
  • Daniel Van Orman

    Post

    Teachings on Higher Pleasures

    "There is no known Epicurean theory of life which does not assign to the pleasures of the intellect, of the feelings and imagination, and of the moral sentiments, a much higher value as pleasures than to those of mere…
  • Daniel Van Orman

    Thread
    "The said truth is that it is the greatest happiness of the greatest number that is the measure of right and wrong." - Jeremy Bentham

    As with any philosophy theory, the Principle of Maximal Utility may be criticized and defended in numerous ways -…
  • Daniel Van Orman

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    Arguments against Maximizing Total Happiness

    Position: One should not be concerned for the happiness of others.

    I apologize for the lack of content in this section. I had trouble finding points to add.

    - Unnatural
    Typically, a person's natural…
  • Daniel Van Orman

    Thread
    "The said truth is that it is the greatest happiness of the greatest number that is the measure of right and wrong." - Jeremy Bentham

    Applying this principle in one's daily life will require sacrificing one's own happiness to maximize the happiness of…
  • Cassius

    Replied to the thread Video Blogging.
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    Actually yes Hiram I am thinking that rather than undertaking a set schedule, we could just do a one-shot deal with a couple of us answering a list of questions, or some other similar track that would make for a reasonable-length summary. Sort of like:…
  • Hiram

    Replied to the thread Greetings from a Newcomer.
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    (Quote from Pivot)

    This is hedonic calculus, and the 'search for meaning' can framed according to our nature as a search for the pleasure of meaning. Many people say they are looking for "meaning", and for many the use of philosophy is to create meaning…
  • Hiram

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    usurp the supremacy of reason or logic (which is in most of philosophy celebrated as absolute monarch of people's philosophical values) and replace it with either nature or other aspects of our nature. I think N chose WILL (or will to power) as a supreme…
  • Cassius

    Replied to the thread Video Blogging.
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    Yep - and Hiram I am also thinking in terms of that QA session that you and Harrington Andros did several years ago. I thought that was well done and the format is effective for an introductory discussion.
  • Hiram

    Replied to the thread Video Blogging.
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    Philosophy Tube makes vids that are very professional and personal and well made. The "it's good to be smart" and "School of Life" channels' videos could also be a good model.
  • Hiram

    Replied to the thread Welcome Amnoz!.
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    (Quote from Amnoz)

    Very humanist of you :) to create art based on the classical ideal, taking the human body as the measure. Cheers.
  • Cassius

    Posted the thread Video Blogging.
    Thread
    It seems clear that video blogging is growing to be more and more popular, and it might currently be the best way to reach new audiences. I am thinking of relatively short (definitely less than 30 minutes; maybe 15 minutes or less) video presentations…
  • youtube.com/watch?v=6uSLU6XKa1Q&feature=youtu.be

    Comments yesterday at the Facebook Group about "Feelings," (especially in regard to music and Nate Bartman) got me thinking about musical focus on "feelings." If you're as old as I am and American and you…
  • Cassius

    Replied to the thread Welcome Amnoz!.
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    WOW that is great! Thank you for posting that and feel free to post anything similar because as you can tell I (at least) believe that our GrecoRoman heritage is directly related to Epicurean philosophy. We look forward to getting to know you better!
  • Amnoz

    Replied to the thread Welcome Amnoz!.
    Post
    Thank you for the detailed response, Cassius.

    I found your sight, via a web search; I am taking a course about the Foundations of Western History, (The Great Courses), and Epicurus was discussed, leading to my interest in knowing more about Epicurean…
  • Cassius

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    Hiram I presume here you mean that Nietzsche was saying, as he complained against the Stoics, that it is wrong for philosophers to try to put "reason" or some other construct in the place of feeling? I think you're saying that but I was wondering about…
  • Cassius

    Replied to the thread Greetings from a Newcomer.
    Post
    Right, we need to save the good stuff for Daniel's thread! ;-) But one of the things I will want to cover is what Pivot just pointed out - that no matter what people say, they are really doing what brings them the most pleasure. That is an argument that…
  • Pivot

    Replied to the thread Greetings from a Newcomer.
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    Well-said Hiram. In fact I would say that even those who claim they are living a life solely for others, and not for their own pleasure, are in reality putting their own pleasure above and beyond that of others. For if he did not derive pleasure in…
  • Hiram

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    (Quote from Harrington Andros)

    Not sure in detail, but N did elevate INSTINCT and VISCERAL, gut feelings above reason, and made them an important source of insight. I think this goes back to the Michel Onfray (and Cyrenaic) idea of philosophizing with /…
  • Hiram

    Replied to the thread Greetings from a Newcomer.
    Post
    Utilitarianism can only go so far. We can only aim to please others to an extent, then we lose our ataraxia and our own enjoyment. BUT a good discussion would be on the limits to which we are willing to go for our friends and associates, for the sake of…
  • "That is why that I disagree that all pleasures must be sought." Yes as you state we are together on that. All pleasure is desirable by definition, but we certainly should not pursue those pleasures which will bring us pain that outweighs the reward.
  • Cassius: "If we are Epicureans who fully endorse and do not suppress pleasure, then we equate 'freedom from pain' with an experience full of active and ordinary and contemplative and mental and physical pleasures - all types, and we all understand that…
  • Daniel Van Orman

    Replied to the thread Greetings from a Newcomer.
    Post
    Cassius
    Okay, I will make a thread discuss that question.

    Please allow me a few days to set it up. I would like its setup to be of high quality.
  • Cassius

    Thread
    Eoghan Gardiner posted this at his blog, and I am linking here because I want to preserve my comment:

    Eoghan: Pleasure is the goal - it's our only goal, EVERYTHING ELSE is either a means to that goal or at least a way to avoid a pain. Hopefully…
  • OK I have created another thread on the "blending" issue. I suspect that for purposes of our current discussion that issue is a tangent, and should be set aside until later, but that's one purpose of forum software like this -- we can pick up the thread…
  • The issue of whether pleasure and pain can "blend" together has come up in another thread. I am not prepared at the moment to post at length on the issue, but my understanding is that in Philebus (and perhaps elsewhere) the argument that pain and…
  • Daniel: When you write "My claim is pleasure and pain are not defined as the lack of one another - they may both be present at the same time" I think you are right and that is proper phrasing. In our total experience, my head can be experiencing…
  • My comments which I will interject - I hope it is clear to what I am responding.

    (1) Pivot: "I agree with you that Epicurus was not against having much, but I believe he was against actively toiling for more than is necessary for one's freedom from…